Ive only had my RSL for a few weeks now, but I'm already getting the, "it's cool, but it's not Caron look". So are carbon frames that much stiffer? I'm coming of of a Tarmac SL that I really liked to ride and race, but it was starting to beat me up a bit following a recent back surgery. Anyway. Are there any numbers comparing the RSL to carbon frames?
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davidb
MemberI can't remember where to find any numbers, but this is a very good article.
http://windinmyface.com/Moots-2012-Vamoots_RSL.html
He also writes about one of my favorite rides:
http://windinmyface.com/events-DevilMountainDouble.html
(Too many broken ribs to ride it this year on my oldish compact)(Of course I broke them crashing my Smoothie. Oops)
Posted 12 months ago # -
sbsbiker
MemberAZ, you tell us, I have NEVER ridden a carbon bike outside of a parking lot and have no idea what they ride like, or what the big deal is besides low weight. Cannondales in the 80's had the stiff/light thing going for them, but they rode like crap on anything but the smoothest roads, and i cracked several as a u-23 newbie.
Numbers dont reflect everything about ride quality.I have Ti bikes for the great ride quality and ageless longivity. no cracked frames, no plastic feel, i love the ride of my Moots and will gladly scoff at anyone giving me the " it's not carbon" look. The best response to the carbon crowd is to drop them on the climb, and don't look back. The fact that you chose Ti tells me you must feel the same way, eventually everyone else will figure it out, and if not, their loss.
Posted 12 months ago # -
Frame stiffness is such a misused phrase in the cycling world. So much "flex" we feel when we stand up and hammer the pedals comes from stem, bars, wheels, tires, cranks, etc. that it is really difficult to truly feel the frame's stiffness.
I also don't get why stiffness is such an important "idea" to people buying a bike. I suppose if you're a paid racer and it is a dedicated race bike, then you might want a stiff frame to have better power transfer, BUT in the real world, most of us are not paid racers. And having an ultra stiff frame will beat the hell out of you on a long ride. Moots bikes are a nice blend of being stiff in the right places and having some flex in others.
Take pride in the fact that you're NOT on carbon, that you're not a sheep blindly following others when it comes to making a bike purchase. People that really know about cycling will know about your Moots. And as SBS said, if they don't, well, then drop 'em on the climb and they'll learn real quick!
Posted 12 months ago # -
AZDropTop
MemberThanks for the replies. The more I ride the RSL the more I like it. At first it felt a little sluggish compared to my Tarmac, but I'm convinced now that it is do to the damping characteristics of the Ti. The best way I can think to describe it is driving a Corvette vs. driving a BMW M 1. Both are extremely fast, but the BMW is more refined and not as harsh so maybe it doesn't feel as fast? In reality it is just as fast.
I guess I was looking for numbers to get a clearer picture in my head as to what I feel while riding. I do find it interesting that so many are either for Ti and against Carbon, or for Carbon and against Ti. Personally I like them both and think there are benefits on both sides. Anyway, hopefully I'm not coming across as being disappointed with the RSL because that isn't the case at all. It is a thing of beauty and the craftsmanship is second to none. This is my first Ti bike however so I'm getting used to it and with every ride imsmiling more and more!
Cheers
Posted 12 months ago # -
gearguywb
MemberStiffness...as many bike pens describe it, is overrated. As was mentioned here, much of the "flex" you may think you feel is coming from parts hanging off the frame. Take an older steel bike that is considered "softer", slap a set of enve 45mm wheels on it, and feel the bike "stiffen up".
I have ridden a number of newer carbon bikes, last wa a 2010 super six. I thought for a factory bike it was a good ride...but in no way did it compare to my RSL.
Raced the RSL several times this year and not once were my lowly finishes the bikes fault :)
Now I am rock'in (for me :))my RSL :).....Posted 12 months ago # -
roadiesean
MemberI have a serious quiver of bikes and I honestly believe that if you want stiff, you want Aluminium, it (IMHO) is stiffer per gram than any other material, but it will beat you up. I have a Vamoots RSL and it is stiff light and fast, if anything maybe a little twitchy with the shorter wheelbase but I think the perfect compromise between stiff and comfortable. The first time I rode it, I felt it was the fastest bike I'd ever ridden. But after a year on it, I don't think that it is the fastest bike I've ever ridden, I think that would be my Pinarello Prince SL with Onda stays and forks, but the Vamoots is like your best handmade shoes, the ones that you pull on and you forget you're wearing them, it just does everything perfectly and yes, I have carbon, I have Looks 585 and 595, Colnago C50 and C40 and to be honest, I never ride them anymore, they feel dead. The Moots and the Prince always feel alive and with the Lightweights on, the Moots is plenty stiff and I'm 85kg !
As for your riding buddies that give you the "its not carbon" bollocks. Just ignore them, some people will just never understand. And smile the knowing smile at other Moots riders as they ride on past.
Nuff said.
Posted 12 months ago # -
Mojo Man
MemberI'm racing in a mini Spring series, the first 2 races were with by carbon 26'r full squish and the best time I could get after 2 races was a 1:11 (1 hr 11 minutes) over all lap time, and a 5th place finish. I felt like the bike really handled the single track well along with the suspension on the bumpy down hills.
I decided to put more of a fun factor in my next race (3rd race of the series) and try my new YBB custom set up as a SS (similar geo and tubes as the RSL).
In practice it felt sluggish and a little slow in the tech single track. But after the race, I beat my best time by over 5 minutes, and my ave. speed went from 10.8 to 11.6 mph, and also finished 10 seconds behind the guy that has dominated the series. In racing 5 minutes is huge.
Oh, and by the way, he’s in the 20-30 year old class and I’m in the 50+ class.
What my point is, take some lap times to compare the two bikes, see which one is really faster. You may be delightfully surprised.
One thing for sure, Ti is more fun to ride.
mojo
Posted 11 months ago # -
AZDropTop
MemberThanks for the replies all. I've fallen in love with the MOOTS now and even if it isn't as stiff as some carbon bikes, though I'm not sure that's the case, I love this thing. The way it DOESN'T beat me up on the terrible roads around here is worth it alone. Not to mention how beautiful the bike is. The original 'sluggish' feeling I was having is gone now and there is absolutely no flex that I can see or feel. Not sure what I was feeling on the first few rides, but I'm hooked....
Posted 11 months ago #
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