Satellite
Member
Awilson,
My VaMoots SL serial number actually starts with SL57M5086. Moots can certainly tell you more but it is a 56cm frame and hopefully it has the SL stamped in the bottom bracket (it might be under the cable guide). The SL's of that era are 6/4 Reynold Double Butted Tubing. The RSL's are a cool bike, but I like the more traditional VaMoots level top tube of the SL 6/4 with the tried and true bottom bracket shell. I only wish I would have ordered the longer 59cm headtube with mine I have a lot of spacers (because I am old).
Satellite
awilson,
From our records it is listed as a standard Vamoots. We have 56M5032 with no "SL"...which means it's not an SL. Completed 4/4/2005.
It's never been back here for repair and was orginally sold through our dealer in Boulder, Co---Vecchios. We don't build them out so we don't know what group was on the bike.
Hope that helps.
Jon@Moots
awilson,
Just what 29er said....butted 6/4 front triangle, 3/2.5 rear end....
Jon@Moots
awilson
Member
Hello JonC. I understand that the Vamoots SL would have a butted 6/4 front triangle - however it appears that this particular frame (56M5032) is not a "SL" variant - but a Vamoots standard frame. Does a Vamoots standard frame use 6/4 or 3/2.5 for the front triangle?
On a seperate note, this frame has the "Vamoots-SL" decal on the top tube. The owner is advertising it as an "SL" frame. I guess it is possible for someone to change out the decal and upsell the frame. Are there other clues that could tell me if indeed the frame is a Vamoots SL? Was there a frame made with the following serial number "SL56M5032"?
- Awilson
29ner
Member
I can chime in a bit more, because I own one. The SL model came with a metal Reynolds emblem that was put on the frame on the downtube, a few inches up from the bottom bracket area. (Now, this could be removed, but who would do that?). Also, the main frame - up close - has noticable markings in it. Like miniscule scratches on the tubes - much like someone scotch brighted it but a much finer - it is not detrimental to the frame, it's just the way the 6/4 tubing is. From anymore than 5 feet away, you can't see the difference. You can also feel a difference between the main frame and the rear if you rub your hands up and down the tubes.....you'll 'feel' those scratches while the 3/2.5 is baby's butt smooth.
The word 'scratch' has a negative connotation in the world of bike frames - it's not meant that way, it's that I'm having a hard time describing in words the difference. If it is the SL, it'll be readily apparent and noticable if you look close.
The stock VaMoots uses a straight gauge 3/2.5 tubeset. I don't think any Moots frameset uses 6.4 tubing anymore. The RSL's models use a butted 3/2.5 set. And I understand the 6.4 was not available any longer from Reynolds. The VaMoots (or any model) uses lots of 6.4 'pieces' - cable stops, dropouts, etc. 6.4 is great for machining, very difficult and expensive for tubing.
I hope this helps and I REALLY hope there is not someone trying to scam by switching decals for more cash.
Satellite
Member
Awilson,
Yep it sounds like a scam'ish type move; maybe NOT by the current owner though maybe the new owner really thinks it is an SL because he got cheated. Moots consecutive numbers there frames with the size stamped first followed by a letter "M" or "O" and a consecutive number. So NO Moots wouldn't have a "SL56M5032" and a "56M5032" serial numbered frame. Also another big tell about SL vs Standard VaMoots is the drop outs. The SL has slotted or drilled drop outs while the Non-SL get solid drop outs. 29er is right see if it has a Pi-Tech tubing decal or the SL Reynolds Aluminum badge, but Jon C has already told you it is a standard VaMoots. Trust Jon he will NOT lead you wrong
I assume this bike is for sale in Colorado only because of the dealer it was sold at they are reputable shop so it wasn’t the dealer that switched the decals. It is still worth buying if the price is right. I have two VaMoots; SL and a S&S Coupled Standard VaMoots, same build just different sized frames the SL is a 57.5 and the Coupled is a 56. When I ride the two bikes I can't tell a bit of difference between them and I actually prefer the Coupled NON-SL VaMoots only because of the versatility of the couplers. I would like to think I am sitting on a gold mine with my SL but the price of a used SL vs NON-SL is almost identical at least all of them that I have watched sell in the past (eBay). A Moots is a Moots. So if the price is right buy it unless you feel like this guy is trying to scam you then buyers beware and I would look elsewhere on principle alone. Moots is always ready to sell you a brand spank’in new VaMoots then you know the history of the frame and get the lifetime warrenty. Since your Moots will last several lifetimes it is a small invest to make, just buy new.
Satellite
awilson
Member
Hello 29ner and Satellite,
Thanks for the information. The bike that I am looking at is on eBay. http://r.ebay.com/QBnCbq
The bike is in California - I am in Texas, so I have to rely on the pictures and seller's description to make a judgement. I do see a green emblem on the down tube. The emblem is shielded by the crank, but it appears to match some other pictures that I have found online of a VaMoots SL with a green Reynolds 6/4 emblem. Of course if someone were willing to go to the trouble to order SL decals for a non-SL frame, I guess they could also order a Reynolds 6/4 emblem as well.
I assumed that the last 4 digits of the SN were sequential and that serial numbers "SL56M5032" and "56M5032" could no co-exist, but I thought I would ask. I really like the idea of getting an "SL" frame - not because I am an advanced enough rider that would require the additional strength of 6/4, but simply because 6/4 Ti tubing is no longer available and would make the frame that much more unique.
I have looked at the pictures to determine what type of drop-outs are on the bike - however I can not tell. Can either of you make a determination?
Finally with regard to price, what is your opinion regarding the starting price for this bike? Would this be a reasonable price even if the frame were a standard VaMoots?
Unfortunately buying a new bike is out of my price range. Even this eBay bike will be a stretch for me. The best option for me is to buy a complete bike with high end components. My current bike is an aluminum frame Felt F70 with a 105 groupset - so transferring components is not really an attractive option. This eBay bike seems to fit the bill - however I don't like the idea of being duped into false advertising.
I will have to say that I am sold on waiting for a Moots - with a Seven being the only other option. I don't know anyone that owns a Moots, however I have done quite a bit of research online and I have never seen such a dedicated following as Moots owners.
Thanks,
Awilson
29ner
Member
That is most definately an SL frameset. Sat was right and the easiest way to see an SL is the dropout - I should note: unless Moots made a running change, the SL did not have a replaceable hanger for the r/d. If it fits, and it's the right price I would say it's a no brainer. I don't know about all that dirt/grit - whatever it is. As far as price? I couldn't answer that.
I think the frame retailed at $3295?? Something like that.
I know Moots didn't make but a few hundred of them....I would guess 200 at the most?? and I may be wrong by a few dozen one way or the other. Get the frame (IF IT FITS and the price is right), and have Moots reblast it. They'll check alignment, new decals....and viola' - you have (virtuallly) a new frame - and a SL one to boot.
Satellite
Member
Awilson,
I looks like a SL, are you sure the serial number you were given was correct; it may of been fat fingered. I like the build. See if you can get an extra photo of the drop out like XJAHX showed on his frame; Moots only used the milled out dropouts on the SL. Also a photo of the serial number, keep in mind the cable guides block the SL stamp on the bottom bracket, but you will see the numbers and can verify they are the #'s provided to Jon C. The sellers feedback looks good 500+ transactions at 100% positive that doesn't happen by accident. Price seems reasonable and a great build especially if NO one else bids.
Good luck with winning it.
Satellite
awilson
Member
Hello Satellite,
Unfortunately my snipe was "out-sniped" by a higher bid. Not all is lost however. I really did not know a lot about Moots before stumbling across this auction. I would say that I am now a much more informed consumer. Thanks for all the great advice that I received from this forum.
- Awilson
craig r
Member
This frame may or may not be an SL.
Those drop outs are used on the newer Vamoots frames although maybe not that far back?
I know on my SL Compact the SL in the serial number is hidden under the BB cable guide with the rest of the S/N exposed.
Also for what its worth not all SL's have those dropouts. Mine was one of the first to be made and doesn't use them.
Cheers
You must log in to post.
