Has anyone had premature failure problems with their PF30 BBs? I picked up my new RSL 29er with a PF30 BB back in the fall and within 2 months the BB failed. When my LBS removed the BB they said water had gotten into the BB and caused the failure so it would not be warrantied. They showed me the bearings and you could see rust coming out the bearing race on the non drive side bearing which they said is more vulnerable to contamination given it is more exposed to the elements on the non drive side. They replaced the part at cost with no labor charge so I didn't worrry about it much and tried to be more careful with the new BB in terms of exposure to mud and water. Was working on my 29er last night and sure enough the 2nd BB has failed. Haven't tore the crankset down yet but now I'm frustrated. I did ride yesterday and the conditions were wet and muddy so I bailed on the ride just 45 minutes after getting out so the BB area was in the soup for a bit but I never had a problem with premature failure of cartridge BBs in this type of a siuation so I'm very surprised at how delicate / susceptable to water this design is. The bike was also used on a few other outings when it was a bit wet and muddy but nothing too extreme and again the cartridge style BBs I have used never seemed to be problematic in these situations. My only other concern is that perhaps the bearings are not aligning properly when installed and this is the actual root cause problem behind the failure? Thoughts?? Are there better PB30 BBs that I could try that have better seals / more weather resistant?
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Mojo Man
MemberIf it were me I would:
1. Buy the tools and learn how to replace the bearings yourself.
2. Before installing a new set of bearings, remove the seal and pack the balls with a good water proof grease.
3. Gently smear some grease on both sides of the bearings, this will help keep water/moisture from penetrating past the seals. When it becomes dry riding again, remove the smeared grease to prevent dirt from sticking to the outter seals.Hope this helps,
good luck
mojo
Posted 1 year ago # -
Gents,
The tips from Mojo Man are on the money. Even a new bearing comes with very little grease in it. I have had very good luck removing the seals and thumb packing the bearings when new. This method has allowed me to run a PFBB for one season of cross. My good friend and teammate Michael Robson has tried many methods and did a test for Velonews using Enduro bearings and others. (see link below).Enduro is about to release a PFBB30 unit that is servicable and has much better seals that a standard bb30 or PF30.
I really like the benefits of the lighter/stiffer crank for sure...now the bearings will need to catch up...they are making good progress.
Check out Michaels article here: http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/01/bikes-and-tech/the-unbearable-lightness-of-bearings_203636
Let me know if you have comments/questions.
Thanks,
Jon@Moots
Posted 1 year ago # -
ROO,
Nice! Thanks for the link...that's the one!Jon@Moots
Posted 1 year ago # -
Cusco
MemberHas anybody had luck pursuing warranty claims for the Truvativ PF30 BB with Sram? From my perspective it is absurd that I could have 2 BB failures in 4 months. I understand that water / mud and bearings don't mix but there needs to be a reasonable amount of protection / resiliancy / water resistant seals for a MTB application. To expect a BB / crankset won't be exposed to some mud and water during the course of normal mountain biking is ridiculous. What happens when I get caught in a heavy thunderstorm in the summer and my bike and gear get soaked ... so I will need to replace my BB? Can't say that I much like the idea of buying a $230 Enduro XD 15 BB that only might solve this problem. I'm beginnig to wish I had a standard threaded BB shell with a run of the mill Shimano outboard cartridge bearing which would be spinning buttery smooth after only 4 months of use in normal conditions. To make matters worse I will probably need to spend $150 bucks to be able to remove / press fit new BBs so I don't have to visit my LBS every time my BB fails. Ughhh!
This is hard to believe ... not exactly rocket science to come up with decent seals for a bearing.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Cusco,
You're right, it isn't rocket science to come up with a seal that keeps out the crud, but there is a catch.
All these BB designers (I say designers as the bearings are mostly spec'd from bearing companies, so they aren't really engineering them) have to balance the amount of crud the seals keep out with the ability of the bearing to spin freely. The gripe with all the outboard bearings (and now the all their BB30, 96, etc. counterparts) was they didn't spin well enough, esp. for the roadies using them (mountain bikers don't seem to care as much). So, it's a balancing act...highly sealed with a lot of seal induced friction OR lightly sealed with minimal friction?
All that being said, I agree you should get a LOT longer life out of your BB's. If you really can't take it anymore, check out this item... http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/22501-030_TRUBS1/Truvativ-BB-Shell-Adapter-Kit-PF30-BSA.htm
I don't know anything about it, but it might resolve your issue in the fact that you can just run a regular BB in your PF frame.Posted 1 year ago # -
kalamath
MemberWhat Mojo says about prying up the seal (carefully!) and greasing is solid gold. You can extend the life of even a SRAM BB by a significant amount by doing this.
Now, since I hate SRAM BBs, I'm building mine up with this one by E13:
http://www.treefortbikes.com/product/333222376931/90/e13-e13-PF30-Bottom-Bracket,.htmlTheir gear seems to be pretty bomber. Should be here in the next week or two. Can't wait! I'[ll try to remember to report back on the BB.
Nino
2010 Ibis Mojo SL
2005 Moots CompactPosted 1 year ago # -
Hi there,
have two (non Moots) 29er with PF30 bottom brackets...
Have gone through three different models so far. If I would have to rank them it would read:
1. Reset Racing
2. Tune
3. SRAM CeramicComments:
SRAM is extremely easy to install but seams to "soak" water – like you (all) found out. Too bad becauce I like the Nylon approach with the two pieces forming a seal between the cups which also makes it very "silent" (no creaking ever had). Not installed at the moment in any bike.tune has some very nice seals on both sides but no guard/spacer in the middle which might be problem on the long run. Unfortunately aimed at tune cranks therefore no standard spacers/washers provided. Might be difficultt to use with other cranks. Although aluminium no creaking (yet). Installed with tune cranks in my IF.
Reset Racing. That one has fantastic two (or you may count three) piece guards which work very fine. Unfortunately their website is in german only but if you take a look at the link/instructions below you get an idea of how they did the setup. Did have to reinstall the aluminium cups once and put on some extra (!) copper paste to get rid of a minimal creaking, Fine now. Installed with Hollogram SLs in my FF. Like it :-)
Picture of the Reset Racing bottom bracket installed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/75786557@N02/6823220459/in/set-72157629184755529
Cheers, Lorenz
Posted 1 year ago # -
boots2000
MemberHate to say it but I have had nothing but problems with my PF30. I have a Mooto-X 29er with PF30 and Cannondale Hollowgram cranks.
When I ordered the bike I want the PF bb specifically for the Cannondale cranks.
I have been through multiple bb units, bearings, etc. in about 6-7 months. This has been in mostly nice weather too.
It seems like something in the bb is always creaking or clacking.
If I had it to do over again I would order the same frame with a threaded bb in it. Then I would put a King bb and some xtr cranks on it and be done.Posted 1 year ago # -
Mojo Man
MemberSorry to here about your problems
If I were in your boat, I would try one of the after market PF external bearing systems (looks like some nice ones coming out).
I think one of the problems with having the bearings inside a 68mm shell is the narrow bearing foot print. This allows for an additional moment arm effect or increased leverage arm that is exserting more force on the bearings from your crank spindle (Engineering 101). By going with external bearings, you are decreasing the moment arm forces on the bearings because of the wider bearing foot print.Or jump on this:
Enduro is about to release a PFBB30 unit that is servicable and has much better seals that a standard bb30 or PF30.
Then again, it depends on where your problems are, contamination due to poor bearing seals or worn out bearings, noisy bearing/cups due to an increase in external forces, as I discussed above.
I'm sure the PF30 will be a nice system once more after market companies get involved.
JM@C
Hope this helps
mojo
Posted 1 year ago # -
You can always get a bb30 to BSA adapter and run a king bob with xtr cranks. It is an option several of my friends are running. I had about a year of rain, mud, and creek crossing in my bb before it died. Though I was able to pull it out and re-load the bearings and bring it back to life. No creaks ever just contaminated bearings. Used better grease this time around and have had better luck. My setup is a pf30 SRAM bb with slx cranks and problem solvers 24mm shims.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just got a set of the Parlee PF30 adapters in. They look similar to the problem solver shims I'm currently using aside from having bearings along the 24mm axle slot. I'm curious how they'll work. I'll post up when I get some miles and time in on them. They aren't cheap, that is for certain.
Posted 1 year ago # -
kalamath
MemberWell, I have the e13 installed with a Hollowgram SL on my MX RSL, and it's not ideal. The BB is awesome, built like a tank, but doesn't play well with the crank. The problem is there's too much sideways "stack" to it, and no room for adjustment to get the crank centered. About the only option I could see is having the shoulder of the cups milled down some.
Looking at my options now. May wind up with the XD-15...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Cusco
MemberOrdered the Enduro XD 15 last night. My latest Sram PF30 BB seems to be holding up better thus far but I have been very careful about exposure to water and have been avoiding stream crossings and rinsing mud off my bike with a garden hose. There are several small streams crossing the trails I ride that in the past I would not hesitate to ride through which might cause the BB to be partially submerged for 1 or 2 seconds but now I try to avoid them when possible. Also, in the past I was very careful when rinsing my frame to use a very gentle spray and not point the stream at the BB area but now I have stopped washing my bike off altogether which is a pain given I keep my rig in my basement and it tends to track mud into the house.
Should have the XD 15 by mid week but haven't decided yet whether I will install it right away or wait and see how the $30 Sram BB holds up. Regardless of my decision on whether to install the new BB my RSL is in need of a thorough cleaning followed by some maintenance in preparation for my 1st race in a few weeks so it will see the garden hose soon :)
Posted 1 year ago #
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