Guys
I really don't want to do something hacky like putting zip ties around my toptube.
Anyone figure out an elegant way to use hydraulic brake lines with the old cable stops?
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Satellite
MemberHere is what I used:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BR408C14-Problem+Solvers+Brake+Line+Guides.aspx
However mine are silver they look okay. I would rather have the cable guides drilled out, I just wasn't brave enough to do it.
Satellite
Edit: Here is another link to the silver ones: http://www.treefortbikes.com/product/333222343924/436/Problem-Solvers-Hydraulic.html
Posted 1 year ago # -
edebolt
MemberThanks!!! that's a solid option.
Do they attach well and stay put?
I don't think I would want to drill the cable stop out either.
What happens in the middle of the top tube? does the line flop around or do you just add a rubber collar etc so it doesn't slap the tube?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Drdan1
Memberedebolt, you have a Moots...! Have the cable stop professionally drilled, and the frame bead blasted for a flawless look, as if the hose guide was intended for the original buiild. Add ons look cheap IMHO. Give Moots a call, and find the most aesthetic solution. You'll be glad you spent more $ for an infinitely better solution.
Posted 1 year ago # -
edebolt
Memberyeah I hear you Drdan. Just had it refinished by Moots about 2 years ago but didn't know the cable guides were an option.
I am quasi interested in getting the Independent Fabrications shotpeen surface treatment for my YBB. It's basically like having an outer layer of forged titanium and reportedly about 10 times longer to failure and widely used in aviation.
Enlarge the photo and check it out !
http://www.ifrider.com/titanium-deluxe-24/
Shot peening is pretty interesting stuff. Just wonder if it changes the ride quality.
http://www.metalimprovement.com/shot_peening.php
http://www.ifbikes.com/?id=40&keepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=400&width=500
Posted 1 year ago # -
Satellite
MemberDo they attach well and stay put?
I don't think I would want to drill the cable stop out either.
What happens in the middle of the top tube? does the line flop around or do you just add a rubber collar etc so it doesn't slap the tube?
edebolt,
Yes they work very well, I use them on my Mootaineer with 4" of travel, way more dynamic suspension than the YBB, I have never noticed any flopping around. Keep in mind that hydraulic brake line isn't under the same tension force that mechanical brake cables are. Mechanical brake cables are like a piano wire that oscillate under vibration, hydraulic brake line is also wrapped with the plastic outer layer.
Try the problem solvers first, they are easy and require no modifications to your frame. If you don't like them in the end you're out very little investment, if you slip while cutting our your existing cable guides you are out a huge investment.
As for shot peening, I say it's marketing hype or why wouldn't all the ti builders be doing it. Of all the Ti builders IF is the only company using it. Nothing against IF and there processes, but there is a reason Moots and others offer a lifetime warranty; simply because customers don't need to ever use the warranty, Titanium bikes are solid. Perhaps if the failure rate was higher on Moots then they would look into more durable processes like shot peening (if the claims are true) but it is simply NOT needed.
Try the problem solvers once you get them I am sure you will be satisfied and ride the heck out of that YBB. I truly don't even notice the cable on mine.
Satellite
Posted 1 year ago # -
edebolt
MemberDrDan and Satellite
Thanks for the inputs.
I think I might try the Problem solvers and like you say its a small cost and see if I like them. It does make sense the hydraulic line is stiffer and would not move around like a cable.
Or at some point maybe get a pro to drill out the stops.
On the shot peening it definitely looks like other industries such as aerospace and auto racing do consider shot peening far more durable. Why doesn't Moots shotpeen? could be a number of reasons. Could change the ride quality. Can't do it in house etc. More expensive.
I am somewhat interested in shot peening for surface durability. The Moots bead blast finish is beautiful but rubs off and scratches easily. Quite a few Ti frames just use brushed surface which can be restored easily with a scotch brite pad or light polishing.
It does beg the question why more Ti builders don't shot peen.
Posted 1 year ago # -
edebolt
MemberSBSbiker
Click on the photo and the enlarged size is decent detail. I have surfed around the Independent site and it does seem like the finishes vary or at least look different. Some to me anyway almost look the same as the Moots finish.
http://www.ifrider.com/titanium-deluxe-24/
this surface to me looks much more shiny and imagine even closer up it looks compressed or forged. While that might be stronger I suppose it could also stiffen the ride and diminish that silky Titanium feel we are all addicted to.
Anyway I thought I would bring it up because it seems interesting but I have to wonder if its so great why haven't other high end builders copied it.
Frame fabricators in general and Moots in particular are a fairly pragmatic bunch of people
Posted 1 year ago # -
sbsbiker
MemberSorry, but it's hard to see how the finish looks from that little head tube shot. Maybe my iPad will not blow up that thumbnail enough. No matter the appearence I don't think any surface application would alter the ride quality enough for anyone to notice. Adding a more durable surface may help long term scratch and dent resistance, but (IMHO) the real ride quality is a combination of the quality of the build, design and tube selection. Interesting that peening adds 100x to the strength of welds in the aerospace applications, I guess a Moots with this treatment would then last 100lifetimes. Heirloom.
Posted 1 year ago # -
29ner
MemberI would have to agree with sbsbiker. I can imagine it adds anything to the ride quality - that is achieved by what he states. Also, Moots doesn't bead blast (although that's waht everyone calls it). It's a glass blast and expensive stuff. That shot peening must be hugely expensive after viewing the process - plus shipping the frames to and from the factory. Is it overkill? Probably - I mean, these are bicycles afterall - not the leading edge of a supersonic aircraft wing. I would think that IF sends them a batch of frames and they are peened as a batch and when the factory is 'slow' or after hours.
Interesting though......
Posted 1 year ago # -
Good topics here fellas, thanks for the input.
Shot peening might (on a very small level) add to the surface hardness of titanium, but really it's accomplishing a similar goal of our bead blast, which is to 1. Give the frame a uniform finish, 2. Relieve any stress that has been built into the frame during the weld and alignment process. The shot peen finish is a bit different vs. our bead blast finish, it leaves the tubes a bit rougher and up close can look a bit "orange peeled"......not a bad thing, just different to our bead blast finish we have been using for years
We are certain the finish would have no bearing on ride difference from one method to the next.
Thanks,
Jon@Moots
Posted 1 year ago # -
edebolt
MemberJon
I would be interested if a harder surface like the shotpeen could allow for more tube butting without durability issues such as denting.
I contacted IF and they will have a frame shotpeened for $300 plus $75 return shipping. They are definitely pricing some profit in that so I imagine the cost is quite a bit less.
Posted 1 year ago # -
edebolt,
That's a good question....I'm calling an engineer on this one. I'll be back with an answer.Thanks,
Jon@Moots
Posted 1 year ago # -
tjwall78
MemberI find it interesting that on the IF web site they state it has to be the final finish other then paint and if you bead blast, brush or even polish over a shot peened finish it will undo the mechanical benefits. If it truly is a much harder finish that changes the mechanical proprieties of a metal I find it weird that the mechianial benefits that it added can be brushed or polished away.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Drdan1
MemberIF most likely means that the shot peening does alter the metal mechanically, but at the surface level, much like anodization alters titanium superficially. The "skin" if you will, alters the mechanical properties of the entire tube.
I like the look of the shot peened frame, but to me, the Moots finish is more sophisticated, yet subtle. It's not without reason they've kept their particular finish over the years, and offer no options.
Posted 1 year ago #
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