Flatfendershop
Member
I apologize if this has been asked before and beat to death.
Has MOOTS ever dabbled with a 650B configuration? Any prototypes or production models out in the world?
(I did a search and nothing ever came up, haven't seen anything in my year and a half of lurking)
Thanks, Flat.
Flatfendershop
Member
Careful sbs...there was a day when someone said "why 29, what's wrong with 26er's?" :)
Those pesky phones with no wires turned out to be a pessimists nightmare too.
So, I'll render an answer that is somewhat rhetorical, why not? What fun is cranking out the same old stuff all the time? Thank goodness the industry is exploring new ideas all the time - albeit 650B is not new.
I'm no expert on it, but there is some discussion pointing to the fact that 650B's are lighter than 29s and have some rotational benefits that relate to physics (of which I'm woefully under-qualified to talk about but you can google it pretty quick).
By nature of using Ti, Moots is obviously on a path to find the ultimate bicycle configuration. Maybe 650B is that, I don't know. Just wondered if they've done any r&d. Sounds like someone in the "boat" (as in Steamboat) should walk across the street and ask the other guys what they've discovered. I would.
Flat.
Flatfendershop....
At this time we see very little reason to go with 650b. Tires are very limited, forks...well, there are none at this time that can safely run a tire without the chance of topping out the tire in the fork arch. We are loving the 29ers and will continue down this path. We have however, looked at all the + 's & -'s to make sure we can speak with some knowledge. You won't see a 650b from us in the near future...but never say never.
As for retro-fitting a Moots 26er with 650b wheels....they might fit, but will give almost zero clearance from tire to chainstay...a slightly out of true wheel, some mud or a rock would have a very hard time fitting through.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
thanks,
Jon@Moots
sbsbiker
Member
Flat, I don't have to walk to find out what KE is doing, I goto the same events as kent and talk to him about all his new cool stuff all the time. For the record, I'm riding a gristle, so I'm well aware of the benifits of bigger wheels, the 650b is currently held back by what jon said, no good oem parts or tread. So I guess my question was not why would you want a 650b wheel but why goto a unaccepted wheel size that has limited industry acceptance, when a perfectly good bigger wheel size is available,(29ers)?
Flatfendershop
Member
Thanks for the notes guys. Now that you have spoken I can show my hand...I agree. 650B doesn't seem to make sense, however I'm an engineer and need to constantly ask the what if and why not questions. I appreciate that communication is happening amongst builders, sharing ideas, even bits of top secret ideas, is good for the industry and the brain power multiplies. We often share with competing firms at conferences, etc.
Keep up the good work.
For what its worth, I run on 26's. Perhaps someday it'll be old school, but I quite like 'em. I'm not one to change rides often. Before I got my YBB I rode my Fisher CR-7 for 19 years - she's a great horse. It'll be another 15 before I'm ready for a new bike. (they're not garage queens either, I dare say the Fisher has 100 grand on it - several component and bearing change outs later)
Flat.
tbill
Member
At D2R2 last year, I spoke with Peter Weigle at the lunch stop about the 650B wheels he had on his newly built rando bike, and in that format at least it makes a lot of sense. There are more tires available, he made the fork (no issue of availability there), so in that niche it makes a lot of sense. Even with the fat tires the bike was beautifully proportioned.
Flat,
A few things. First, 26" is NOT old school. The 26" format will never go away. Too many plusses to it. I got my first 29'er this last year and after a lot of miles on it, I would say that if I had to have ONE bike, it wouldn't be a 29'er. Sure, there are definite advantages to it, but there are just as many advantages to 26" wheels. I am sure these comments could stoke a few fires, but they are not intended to. I am just giving you my opinion.
Second, thankfully, I do NOT have to have one bike, so I am not locked into one wheel size. I look at it like this; cars and motorcycles have different sizes of wheels for different applications. Can you take a Honda Element with it's 265/65/R16 wheels off road? Sure, very carefully and not on anything too crazy. Is it better to take your truck with 35" tires off-road? Probably. Same deal with motorcycles. Use the right wheel for the right application. Wide open, fast, non-technical trail or race? I'd roll the hardtail 29'er. Tight, twisty, technical singletrack? I'm grabbing the FS 26".
The CR-7 was the first bike I lusted over. Cool that you rode it for 19+ years!
Flatfendershop
Member
Good insight Fubar, I've intended to demo a 29 but haven't gotten to it yet. I suspect its one of those things that you don't want to try unless you can afford to buy.
Tbill, I can see the application in randonneuring also. Tire and fork availability are an issue, not just for initial purchase, but as Fubar indicates you need a variety to fit different riding conditions and riders.
I forced myself to reduce to two bikes - road and mountain. ONE of each. Simpler is better. It was hard to do but I wouldn't go back.
Talabardio
Member
Just to breathe a little life into this old thread. My old bike is a nice YBB...pretty darned old at this point, V brakes and all. I'm saving up for a new ride...after testing some bikes I am heavily inclined towards 650b. Why? Pretty simple - because, for my purposes, it produced the the best riding bike! My experience was, to my surprise, exactly like the reviewers at MBA in the next/new issue: http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/reviews/index.html
Combining my experience with the good news that Fox forks and some bigger companies are now going to jump on board the 650b bandwagon and I am hoping that Moots will do like KE and Kish and get hip as well. That way I won't have to toss out my old Moots underwear when I get the new bike. ( a little joke)
Talabardio,
Are you saying we are not hip? (just kidding)....We'll see what the future brings....650B band wagon here we come?
We've kept an eye on this in-between wheel size before it was hip....we'll see.
Thanks,
Jon@Moots
Talabardio
Member
Hi Jon, thanks for your response. A few rides on an acquaintance's custom ti 650b hard-tail rocked my bike-world pretty hard! I would love to retire my YBB with a new Moots. I like 29ers too, but they don't ride like this. Here's some more very recent news: http://bicycling.com/blogs/thestraightdirt/2012/01/26/prepare-for-the-650b-wheel-size-revolution/1/
Talabardio,
Yep, read that article....interesting for sure.
thanks,
Jon@Moots
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