http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444 Rider's community and more. en-US Sat, 18 May 2013 17:57:36 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://moots.com/bbpress/search.php http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444&page=2#post-10917 Sun, 20 May 2012 12:55:26 +0000 29ner 10917@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>I don't rightly know.....sounds about right. A simple call to Moots... </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444&page=2#post-10902 Sat, 19 May 2012 23:14:13 +0000 Bobonli 10902@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>What is "considerably" more expensive? I'm awaiting pricing from the shop.</p> <p>I know the only other contender, a Seven Mud Honey SL, kitted with DA Di2 is about $9k, but they don't list the basic frame price. Wrench Science lists the Psychlo at $3575 and the RSL at $1k more with a 1/2 lb weight savings, but I'm not sure those prices are accurate. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-10897 Sat, 19 May 2012 19:34:07 +0000 29ner 10897@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>They are both awesome bikes, both will/can perform very admirably on the cross curcuit. All things being equal, the RSL will be a bit lighter and a bit stiffer. It is an all-out race bike (that can be super fun on the singletrack sessions, dirt roads, etc.). </p> <p>As far as an oppurtunity to up-sell or charge more - well, not really true. It's a totally different tubeset - a butted front triangle with a 44mm headtube and BB30, and a bigger diameter seat tube. This butting is done by Reynolds - which is in England, so the tubes go back and forth. A 6/4 rear triangle - quite a bit more expensive than the 3/2.5 set on the standard cross. </p> <p>The RSL comes stock with the 44 headtube, BB30 - but you can option to go 'regular'. The standard cross comes 'regular', but you can option to get the 44 headtube and/or BB30. The RSL features a flattened top tube for shouldering - it looks way cool, but is (IMO) not a game changer one way or the other. </p> <p>Both can be had with with custom geometry, with/without the chainstay bridge, with/without canti bosses, etc., etc. I'm sure any high end company offers these type options. If you plan any type of mud or competition, I'd opt for 'no' chainstay bridge - it just collects mud. </p> <p>Note: The 44mm headtube can run the Moots fork or a tapered fork. The Moots fork is ONLY Canti equipped - no discs as yet. The new electric Dura Ace - and you can be sure the Ultegra - will/are 11 speed rear. Probably by this next fall/show season. An 11 rear in the mud? </p> <p>I think it comes down to this: both are fast, bulletproof, phenominally well made framesets. Both would make any owner very proud and leave no excuse. The RSL is more expensive (considerably), but you are paying for a different frameset, one that went across the country, across an ocean - and back. Ever seen how they butt a titanium tube? It's either fluid/hydraulic or internal machined - I would think Moots/Reynolds does the fluid style....costly, immense pressures, and a completely different and complex engineering. </p> <p>If you have a deep pocket, and love to go fast/race - the RSL is the ticket. The stock frame - is by no means 'stock' - it's one of the best cross bikes on the planet. Just as fast/nimble/virtually identical geometries as the RSL with a bit more 'give' in the frame and a few ounces heavier - certainly not noticeable. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-10889 Sat, 19 May 2012 15:52:58 +0000 Bobonli 10889@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>So I'm thisclose to moving forward on a Psychlo X. I'm sold on electronic shifting. The one thing that had me hung up was the aesthetics of the battery, but my LBS has figured out how to hide it in the seat tube. I was blown away by the price, though, not realizing how much of a premium the DA group is over Ultegra or mechanical. But I've ridden mechanical for long enough; time to move forward.</p> <p>I can't make an educated decision about RSL or non-RSL. All I understand is the description on the website: stiffer front end, able to taper tubes to save weight etc. At some point, particularly when discussing money, it sounds like an up-sell/opportunity to charge more.</p> <p>Help me understand the performance differences between the standard and RSL frames.</p> <p>Thanks </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-10373 Sun, 06 May 2012 07:02:56 +0000 Jerome 10373@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Hello 29ner</p> <p>Just to give you my recommendation,<br /> before riding Moots bikes I was a long long time Seven, Parlee and Serotta aficionado I had road, CX and MTB from them.<br /> I am riding an average of 20 000 km/y.<br /> Moots are riding like none others and they are Ti what is the best for me, Ti morphs in the ride style you like and conform to your shape of the day, strong reliable long lasting. </p> <p>For a do it all bike go CX, </p> <p>my RSL CX is just 1450g frame only, as light as my CR or IF XS (same weight than my former Axiom SL, Serotta Ottrot and just 100g heavier than the Meivici, Parlee were way too light on the other side to be ridden with confidence).</p> <p>Go tubular on the CX : schwable is making great one strong to avoid flats and great for non racers. </p> <p>best </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9957 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 03:20:47 +0000 29ner 9957@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>I just saw the Bike Rumor linc and that is quite a bike. I believe it's for 'test whatever is on the market except canti's'. I think that's what I read. It's got the mechanical stops, electric ports and a hydraulic through guide/stop for the rear, disc tab on the rear. Notice the fork? A 3T with no disc tabs - probably on just for the photo. I couldn't find the linc for the Mini-V - and I'm too tired to look. But, it seems to me - anything but a disc is gonna have to have some sort of stud to hang a caliper, huh? </p> <p>That is the RSL, bigger seat tube/post, butted front, flattened tt, BB30. Note the replaceable hanger and milled dropouts. A clean machine.....also has rack mounts. Cool if you are into that....I'm not sure I would use that bike as a commuter. See the seat collar insert? Cool and a Moots 'only' as far as I know, The RSL has a seat collar, the Psychlo X has a welded on binder bolt. The electric ports are definately a drilled and welded part. Note how the bottle mounts are drilled, and the threaded part placed in and 'welded' - no pop-rivet water bottle boss on a Moots. It appears the same was done on the electric ports (but not threaded). </p> <p>I know that Moots is also working on a disc brake 'post' mount as an alternative to the IS style (is that what it's called?). Having some design problems as it's a road width (130) and different bends/stay diameter.....it's a matter of time. Not a big issue, but you have to work out the machining, jigging, CNC (if they need that), etc., etc. There are plenty of adaptors in any case.</p> <p>I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually get a chain stay mounted disc. And will work out the tabs and tapered model on their forks..........it is not just Moots - every high end frame maker will. No doubt about it...</p> <p>Own more than one? Oh boy, You've no idea................. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9956 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 02:26:56 +0000 Bobonli 9956@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Just double checking: Do I need the cantilever posts if I decide to run mini V brakes? My impression is "no," but just want to double check.</p> <p>This will be the last bike for awhile (unless I win a Mega Millions, I tend to keep bikes in excess of 10 years and that's one reason I can justify this type of coin on a bike), and barring any issues getting it ordered, it will almost certainly be the Psychlo X.</p> <p>One thing is for sure, the Moots riders are passionate. If I've been keeping track correctly, most of the folks I've communicated with since starting my search own more than one. That's quite a testament to loyalty and satisfaction. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9955 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 01:24:06 +0000 29ner 9955@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>I didn't read the Mini V post. But, you seem to have hit the "I need a new bike" directly in the path of "cross bikes are going disc" timeframe. Canti's are fine - all they do is slow you down anyway, right? This is why I - and many, many cyclists - get new frames/bikes. Things change, things get better. I know a few at Moots deplore discs on cross, same with BB30 (or any other BB standard ) with the guys at Velonews (which is now called Velo). </p> <p>Anyway. Get what you want/need. You REALLY can't go wrong with a Moots and some nice gear hung on it. I got my Moots knowing it's the last without discs unless something totally changes in a year. This thread is starting to get more away from Moots and onto brakes..............................superb frames. The best riding bike on the planet - or one of them.</p> <p>Remember when mountains went from Canti's, to V-brakes, to Discs.....all within 2 or 3 years? I was like 'do V-brakes not work anymore??' But, it's the way it is. If you don't switch frames much: I'd get both disc and canti option (yuck....). If you switch frames alot, I'd get canti only and sell it in a year or two and go disc. </p> <p>Canti's work, they will still be on 90% of cross frames next season, but the tide is changing and there is no doubt which way it's headed. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9954 Wed, 25 Apr 2012 00:32:38 +0000 Bobonli 9954@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>I found something on Bike Rumor, where they built it for mechanical and electric, so it can be done:<br /> <a href="http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/12/21/project-monstercross-moots-disc-brake-cyclocross-test-bike-build/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/12/21/project-monstercross-moots-disc-brake-cyclocross-test-bike-build/</a></p> <p>If I went Mini V brakes, I wouldn't need the cantilever posts, would I? </p> <p>I was going that route, anyway. I have no burning desire for the disc brakes now, but don't want to foreclose the possibility of adding them a year or two from now. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9953 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:32:52 +0000 teamfubar 9953@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>If you go with Sram, you probably won't have to wait too long to go hydraulic discs. They have said their hydro-brifters are going to be ready to roll by this fall (safe to assume by cross season), but if you don't want to wait, just get some Avid BB7's for road levers. The BB7's work great and will be more than excellent for a cross bike. When I switched from my Avid BB7's with XTR V-Brake levers to Avid Juicy Ultimates with carbon levers, I weighed both sets (with all hardware included). Only lost something like 30g per wheel...not much if you ask me...and braking performance is only noticed when cables get old, but heck, you have to bleed hydros on a regular basis too.</p> <p>And as far as 140mm rotors go, you'll only be able to get a 140 for the rear. No one that I know of makes a mount for a 140 in the front. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9952 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:55:20 +0000 29ner 9952@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>If you look on the Moots gallery page - there is at least one or two shots of some pretty nice cross rigs with discs. It's hard to tell on the photo exactly what disc set up it is. BUT, the rest of the build(s) are really nice so I doubt the owner shortchanged his brake set-up. If there is a will, there is a way - you can find the owner, or shop, and get a hold of the owner and ask.</p> <p>I state this through only very vain reasons (and/or 'the chick' in me). I would never, ever put both brake mounts on. I guarentee discs are 'it' in the cross world. Read up on the recent Sea Otter Classic. One of the very first articles is (and I'll paraphrase) "Everywhere we looked, we saw another frame/bike/boutique maker showing off their new disc only equipped cyclocross bike...."</p> <p>Yes, you can take out the actual studs on the canti's - but you'll still have the canti mounting pieces - those are very much welded on and don't come off. Again, the chick in me - but that would throw the lines off and my eye would catch it every single time I rode it. </p> <p>I got my last cross frame knowing full well it'll be my last canti equipped one. No doubt about it. If you look - you can get discs and a good wheelset to support it. Probably limited to forks - Wound Up, Enve, Ritchey. </p> <p>Moots will (at least I think) put on both mechanical stops and electric ports. And/or hydraulic 'through' stops. (they may also be stratching their heads as to why, but it's an option to do so). They can (and I would) increase the rear spacing to better accommodate a disc and to increase the frames strength. From 130 to 135mm. You'd have to get the appropriate wheel...again, if you look/shop - these can be had. I'd go 140 discs. Jeez, now you have me over thinking this and it's not my bike. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9950 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:20:13 +0000 Bobonli 9950@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Satellite, I don't know if the option for both methods of cable routing exists. I was using a hypothetical "what if" to ask whether I should hedge my bet or dive right into electronic. I chatted up the head wrench at my local shop and he pretty much convinced my to jump feet first into electronic. He hasn't seen a failure and doesn't see it as a passing fad. We had a long discussion about Dura ace vs. Ultegra and I'm undecided on that. Money might be the deciding factor.</p> <p>As for the brakes, unless I hear a compelling reason otherwise, my plan was to rig it for both V's and discs. It seems like it might border on foolish not to build it with both and not have the ability to add the discs later on. The dealer I'll likely use suggested I have the attachments but wait a year or two before adding the discs: he's bit skeptical about the current disc offerings and prefers V's or cantos for the road on a bike with big tires. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9949 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:11:41 +0000 Satellite 9949@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Bobonli,</p> <p>I have stayed pretty much away from this thread, but I am wondering? Will Moots build a frame with both mechanical cable routing and electronic. My Mootaineer was built with both V-brake studs and Disk tabs. It made it super versatile; I started out with V-Brakes and switched to Disks later. I was happy to have it built for either solution to the same problem stopping my big @ss.</p> <p>As for pricing I use: </p> <p><a href="http://www.wrenchscience.com/road/Frames/Moots/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wrenchscience.com/road/Frames/Moots/</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.wrenchscience.com/cyclocross/Frames/Moots/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wrenchscience.com/cyclocross/Frames/Moots/</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.wrenchscience.com/mountain/Frames/Moots/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wrenchscience.com/mountain/Frames/Moots/</a></p> <p>IF and Seven are great builder I don’t have a bad thing to say of either of them. However I feel Moots is the best Ti Frame builder period. Moots has the best bang for the buck they are just the right size company to provide a reasonable cost, availability, and customer service. They are NOT a one man shop trying to keep up with demand and they are NOT Trek/Specialized looking at only the bottom line to the stake holders. Moots builds a quality product with no frills or gimmicks they build Ti and build what they have found to work rock solid. </p> <p>Oh and I would very much put disk brakes on my PX.</p> <p>In the end let us know what you decided to do, I like follow up.</p> <p>Satellite </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9945 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:26:28 +0000 Bobonli 9945@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Thank you for trying to help me stimulate the economy but my buying habits are pretty conservative. My last road bike was 15 years old. If I hadn't made the hasty decision to sell it last summer to make room in the basement, I'd be riding it right now without a concern in the world that the parts were old or technology has moved forward.</p> <p>So I need to get it right the first time. Or as close to right as possible. I can't (right now) find a compelling reason not to adopt electronic but, at the end of the day, I suspect the decision will be made after discussing it at the shop to see what their experience has been and whether doing the internal routing could serve to be a handicap in the future.</p> <p>I have to thank everyone for their feedback. Better to have these discussion before ordering than realize two weeks after delivery that you missed something. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9944 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:13:59 +0000 29ner 9944@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Hey, here's what you do. I don't know your buying habits, but I tend to go thru bikes - it keeps you up-to-date with the changes in the component/wheel/frame world. </p> <p>Get a mechanical one now, with canti's. </p> <p>In 2 or 3 years, sell it and get one electric with discs. Shimano will all be 11 speed by then, all the electrics will be less cash, less weight, hidden batteries. All frame and discs makers will be standardized (which is kinda a joke), wheels and forks will be readily available for said discs. </p> <p>And at which time, there will be something else new and must have. It keeps the bike world working.... </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9942 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:46:51 +0000 29ner 9942@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Overthinking? Yes you are - but it's a big chunk of change - I never purchase anything until I look hard and fast at it. And, no, once you commit to electric or mecahnical, Moots will not replace, re-do, etc. It's more work (and would be very delicate work) than it's worth - it would take one of their guys a few days to do, with no guarentee of a slip - and bang, you have a hole in your very thin walled tube/frame. Plus re-aligning, re-finishing - it's more work than building a whole new frame. These are very hand made frames - and to 'un-do' what's been done is not the way frame builders do it.</p> <p>You don't turn an electric guitar into an acoustic one........</p> <p>You could get both mechanical and electric ports (and canti and discs) - but how awful would that look? </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9940 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:16:28 +0000 Bobonli 9940@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>29ner, I like the concept of custom cable routing. It would clean things up a lot. But I wonder/worry that by doing so one is now 10000% committed to electronic.</p> <p>Can you revert back to mechanical once you've had the frame built for internal routing?</p> <p>I'm over-thinking this, aren't I?!? </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9937 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:57:18 +0000 29ner 9937@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>I don't have it, but I've tried it and follow the interest thru the internet, Velonews, Cycling News, etc. </p> <p>1. It definately does work - and very well. Could it handle bumping and jostling in cyclocross? Absolutely - but crashes are crashes. Is it proven? Well, "yes". Said in quotes as it's been available to the public for, what, a year? But, if it were a shoddy product, you'd be hearing about it for sure. Electric shifting won't go away anytime soon and will only get better and less expensive.</p> <p>2. Failure history? Again, it's been around for only a year-ish. I would think it has no more/less failure rate than any other Shimano high end system. Ten years ago, people would laugh as Japan's stuff was a season or two, I think it's pretty bomber now. Any high end shop could fix you up and it'll only get better as it's more readily available. Most of this stuff is a phone call away to a Shimano distributor. Also of note: you don't 'fix' electric derailleurs, you 'replace' them (at least the inards). </p> <p>The fame will be slightly different - made for either mechanical or electrical. Cable stops are different and holes are drilled, tapped, re-enforced for the electric ports. You order either one way or the other....The same if you decide to go disc's or canti's. You will not find a canti brake in the cross world within 3 years. </p> <p>Shimano D/A is going 11 speed, so a purchase now will be obsolete come this fall. They are going with a smaller wiring harness a la' Ultegra. If D/A is going 11, you can bet Ultegra will follow shortly. Batteries will become less obtrusive, lighter, blah, blah. It goes on and on................By the way, Caley Fretz (spelling) of Velo said he has charged his system exactly one time in two months. That's pretty impressive. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9934 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:59:41 +0000 Bobonli 9934@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>If I were going to buy today, they only thing I'm uncertain about is the drivetrain; electronic vs mechanical. I'm a Shimano guy (and Nikon) and tend to stick with what has worked for me in the past so I'd stick with Shimano. I know the subject has been covered ad nauseum, but here are my concerns with electronic shifting:</p> <p>1. Will it perform well for the purpose I described in my original post? Is it proven technology for road and off road use?<br /> I've had mechanical for my entire riding life, I know how it works and have never had a major failure that I couldn't recover from. My concern is whether it can handle getting bumped and jostled in a cross-like environment. </p> <p>2. What has the failure history been? In other words, when does it fail and how easy is it to fix? If I have to ride into the local "consumer" bike shop, will they know how to get me on the road again and/or will I have to wait for parts to materialize from Japan?</p> <p>All the other issues (battery life, having to charge it etc) I can live with. Like the frame, I just want a system I don't have to think about. From what I've read, the shifting is more accurate with less need to trim the front. People who have it love it, but most people love what they've paid a lot for!</p> <p>Your thoughts, please. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9881 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 00:05:11 +0000 Bobonli 9881@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Jerome, you're killing me! The Seven and IF are/were on the short list. What do you like about the Moots over those other two, and please be specific because from where I stand today anyone of the three seem like a home run. My fitter, sort of characterized it this way: those that want a nice bike with million $ paint go to IF. Some concern that some of the old crew stayed in MA. Those that want build quality and don't need the bling go with Seven. So what pushed you to Moots? </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9871 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:04:02 +0000 JonC 9871@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Bobonli,<br /> Thanks for getting your fit and stepping closer to pulling the trigger on a Moots. We understand that everyone has their favorite shop or fitter. However, we have done our homework to seek out what we think are very capable partners to carry and represent the Moots brand and phlilosophies. We don't sell a "ones" to a shop that is too close to a set up dealer. Our dealer will know how to interpret the fit numbers and work with our inside sales staff to make sure the order goes smooth and flawless. </p> <p>You can give us a call here at Moots to discuss...we'd love to chat. Matt is the inside guy for the NYC area and he'll be able to answer all of your questions.</p> <p>Thanks,</p> <p>Jon@Moots </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9866 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:05:47 +0000 Jerome 9866@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>I ride a CR, a RSL and a CX RSL I used to ride Serotta, IF and Seven.<br /> I will recommend without hesitation a Psychlo RSL.<br /> it rides like a road bike, more stable, more sturdy and it goes down as none others; you feel like carving on skis.<br /> The Psychlo RSL frame is just as light as a CR.<br /> I am riding a lot and i love it to ride and explore. You feel free to roam free to have the capability to go everywhere in confidence and fun.</p> <p>Psychlo RSL #1 no other </p> <p>best </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9852 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:41:19 +0000 Bobonli 9852@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>My "fitting" for the Mooto-X was nothing more than measurements. It got the job done at the time but fitting is not their specialty. I'd rather not have a middle man; in other words, a proper fitting at one place and then take the measurements down the block to have someone else interpret them and phone them into moots. I'm not trying to go out of my way NOT to use the existing dealer, but I have a fitter (nationally known) whom I'm comfortable with and can't see the point of doing the process twice or introducing a potential error node. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9842 Mon, 23 Apr 2012 11:57:45 +0000 teamfubar 9842@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Moots will (or at least they used to) sell a frame to a "non-Moots" dealer if there are no other Moots dealers in the area (I got my Cinco from a non-Moots dealer since there were no dealers at the time). Since it sounds like you do have a Moots dealer in your area, they probably won't sell to another shop. </p> <p>The Moots dealer doesn't offer a fit service? I am sure the other shop that does offer it does it as a service to selling their bikes. If you're not buying a bike from them, I'd imagine they'd charge you for it, so it shouldn't matter where you buy your bike after that. They can write down all the measurements and you can work with your dealer and Moots to get the right size for you. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9802 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:31:43 +0000 29ner 9802@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Two other things: </p> <p>a. They very well might have a stock frame in a box waiting to ship. They often (most builders do), build more than what is on order. </p> <p>b. They now have road and cross forks - and very nicely made ones. I believe the roadie forks come in 3 rakes and have 2 models - the standard and the Superlight (for the RSL only) and one cross fork - one rake only and has canti studs. All are full carbon. Match the frame nicely and a great finishing touch for the frame. Stiff, light, and up to the Moots standard. Made in China - which is nothing to sneeze at these days - very high quality. 1 1/8" non tapered only for the time being. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9795 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 20:48:27 +0000 29ner 9795@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>I can't answer about the Moots dealer question nor build time (I know good beer, in quantity, helps). I do know that reading your initial inquiry and want/need had 'cross' written all over it. </p> <p>You will never find a nicer fit/finished, nor nicer riding cross bike than a Moots. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9794 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 20:35:09 +0000 Bobonli 9794@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for your comprehensive answer. I always (always!) seem to go bike shopping at the wrong time. I have several big rides I'd like to do this summer/fall (after taking a couple years off to start a family) and I'm hoping to make a decision soon so I'll have something other than my commuter to do the rides on.</p> <p>Does anyone know (and maybe Jon will chime in Monday) will Moots sell through a shop that's not on the dealer list?</p> <p>My options in NYC are exactly two and they are the same shop in different locations. I bought my Mooto-X there but have since found another shop with impeccable fitting services and reputation. I can't see the point of getting fitted at one place and trying to order the frame at another. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9793 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 20:19:31 +0000 29ner 9793@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Bobonli, to me, a road bike is a road bike and a cross is a cross. A cross bike is closer to a mountain bike - but with drop bars, no suspension and skinny tires. You can do what you want as far as moving the cable guides and allow for more clearance, add disc tabs - but still have cantis......and.......you'll have a cross bike (or a very expensive custom roadie). </p> <p>Cross bikes (Moots anyway), don't handle 'slower' than a road bike. Road bikes are quicker, steeper. It's hard to explain - Porsches are super quick and responsive - but, you don't venture off-road on them. Jeeps are fun off road, can climb like goats, but on a long road trip - those knobby tires and super taught suspension make it painful. Old school Cadillacs, while super comfy, were, uh, old school Cadillacs - lull you to sleep as you wallow around a corner.</p> <p>A Moots cross bike is like a Porsche Cayenne - strong on performance - and still off road capable. As a disclamer - I'm no car guy, but you get my drift.</p> <p>It's not a road bike, it's not a mountain bike- it is a flat on cross bike and a very nice one at that - the Swiss Army Knife of bikes, just how you mentioned. Very off road capable, very on road fun (with the right wheels/tires). Wheelbase and angles are very 'bike type' oriented. Longer and slacker usually mean more predictable and stable. Conversly, shorter and steeper usually mean quick/agile - but more unforgiving. If it's your only bike, you'll never notice it, but if you switch between bikes, you'll most definately feel the difference. It's by no means a better or worse ride or a slower/quicker ride - it's a 'different' ride. The cross bikes get a totally different tube design than a roadie. Longer, wider, 's' bend stays that facilitate tire/ankle clearance, a little higher bb, slacker angles for a more stable ride characteristic. Moots definately has longish top tube and steepish head angle on their crosser (read: racy). I love it. </p> <p>That said, it is a very traditional cross bike, top tube routing allows different configs as far as brakes (lots of cross guys reverse front/rear braking - something that internal routing does not permit??), cables/housing easy to replace, impeccable workmanship fit and finish - none better on the planet. I'm a big, big fan - I think I'm on my 4th Moots cross? Something like that. </p> <p>Options: that Rogetk asked - I'm big on a few. Custom geometery, can get it with/without the chain stay bridge, different bb's - can get the standard threaded/english or BB 30, single speed dropouts, cable guide options, rack and fendor options (I deplore rack and fendors on a Moots road or cross - I know some swear by them....but there are commuter bikes for a reason), 44mm headtube (I think on the standard frame - and definate on the RSL), coupler option on the standard, 3rd bottle mount, etc., etc - it's on the website -but they don't mention the bb or headtube option. I also love that they can add a longer head tube than 'stock' at no charge - so if you want a centimeter longer headtube - it's very doable. disclamer: 'within reason'.</p> <p>Also, about the brakes. Cross brakes used to be laughable. They were simply on to slow you down and horrible things they were. Now, they are making some pretty decent stoppers - Avid, TRP, Paul, etc. But, discs are coming and I would bet the farm that within 2-3 years, high end cross bikes (and roadies) will be hard to get WITHOUT discs. </p> <p>So, Bobonli, you can probably tell I like cross - from reading your 'wants' above, I don't think there is any doubt, a cross bike is what you need. Very off-road capable (within reason, of course), fun and very capable on the road, good commuter, but not a crit machine. I personally think Moots makes the single best cross bike on the planet - bar none - and in two versions. Lots of people on this forum say that if they could have just 'one' bike, it would be the crosser. With your wants, and with any option you may have/need, you can't go wrong. </p> <p>One note: being it's absolute prime time building season in the high end bike world, you may have to wait a bit..... </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9780 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:51:28 +0000 Bobonli 9780@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Let me ask a follow up, and this is coming from someone who doesn't give much thought to wheelbase length and slack angles (haven't had to since I've usually bought pretty much non-custom frames that just rode well). </p> <p>Will I notice a performance difference on the road using a cross frame? Assuming I have appropriate tires and the bike is fit properly, will I feel "slower" or notice a difference in handling? How exactly will the wheel base and slacker angles impact my handling?</p> <p>For perspective, my Co Motion handles like a truck. There's nothing "quick" about it in terms of acceleration or handling but I'd be at a loss to explain why (based on geometry) other then it's bloody heavy! My last roadie was a Serotta Concours and that was a sports car. I'm not a racer and solid average (among serious cyclists) and would prefer more "sports car" than "truck" when it comes to my next frame.</p> <p>One pathway I've seen mentioned on manufacturer blogs is to take a standard road frame, move the cables and allow for more clearance. What about that?</p> <p>I like the option to have disc tabs; however, I think I'd still equip it with cantis. I've seen an article or two about disc failures on long downhills that scared the crap out of me. Not sure discs are soup yet for serious road riding. Also, aesthetically, I like discs on a MTN bike way more than a road bike. </p> http://moots.com/bbpress/topic.php?id=6444#post-9777 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:03:41 +0000 rogetk 9777@http://moots.com/bbpress/ <p>Curious about the various options that 29ner mentions for the stock crosser, bbs, head tubes, etc. 29ner can you explain more about what you think are the best configurations for the riding described above. </p>